Your Parenting Handbook with Tania Johnson, Institute of Child Psychology

DAJANA YOAKLEY

0:01

Hi there.

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I'm so excited to share today's podcast with you.

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On my podcast today, I have Tanya Johnson, the co-founder of the Institute of Child Psychology.

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Tanya and I go into the details of her brand new parenting book called The Parenting Handbook that she coauthored with Tammy Shamoon.

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And they are discussing all the science, all the research that is on child development and what parents can do to raise emotionally resilient and healthy children.

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So welcome you and enjoy.

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Hi, I'm Dajana Yoakley.

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I'm a peaceful parenting coach and mom of three.

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And I'm delighted to give you the latest science-backed research on child development, parenting, and to support you in showing up as the parent that you want to be.

0:47

Everybody, welcome.

0:49

Thanks for joining me today.

0:51

I'm here with Tania Johnson from the Institute of Child Psychology.

0:55

Welcome, Tania.

0:56

So glad to have you here today.

TANIA JOHNSON

0:58

Thank you so much.

0:58

It's such an honor to be with you.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

1:00

Yeah, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today because today is, this is an important first few weeks for you and your co-author.

1:11

You guys have a brand new book coming out.

1:13

So would you tell me a little bit about the, what the title of the book is?

1:16

And I know you have a copy there.

1:18

If you can show it.

TANIA JOHNSON

1:21

So this is mine and Tammy Shamoon.

1:23

She's my business partner.

1:24

This is mine and Tammy's baby.

1:27

It's called The Parenting Handbook, Your Guide to Raising Resilient Children.

1:31

It launches on March 7th, which we're so excited about.

1:36

So much hard work.

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And now we're seeing it come to light.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

1:39

Yay, so exciting.

1:40

So for those of you that are not familiar with the Institute for Child Psychology, I'll let Tanya give you more details.

1:46

But in general, they're an international organization that supports parents in an effort to raise emotionally healthy children.

1:54

And you guys are worldwide and you have such an amazing lineup of experts that you work with and tons of resources for families and educators as well.

2:05

But would you tell us a little bit more specifically?

2:07

TANIA JOHNSON

2:08

Yes, the Institute of Child Psychology, Tammy and I actually both started together in private practice and we were colleagues and we started feeling, we had the shared frustration over just how slow the therapeutic process often was.

2:24

So although it's so important, we both trained play therapists, we both worked a lot with parents.

2:30

If we were lucky, we were seeing a kid just once a week.

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And often it's every other week, you know, same as me.

2:37

I'm a mom, super, super busy.

2:39

So to get my kids to therapy every other week is amazing within itself.

2:43

Yeah.

2:43

But we started to realize that two hours of therapy a month did very, very little to actually create the waves of change that we were looking for.

2:52

And we desperately wanted to be speaking to you.

2:56

the parents more to grandparents to teachers to the coaches to the daycare providers but we couldn't get our hands on any of these people so we said how do we actually start connecting with a child's village because we know when the village is healthy the child is more likely to be healthy

3:12

And so that was the start of the Institute.

3:14

We said, let's do a presentation.

3:16

Let's take everything.

3:17

My first one was actually childhood anxiety.

3:19

We said, let's take everything that we know that we would give to a family in clinic if they were seeing us weekly over a period of three or four minutes.

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And let's sit down with people for a day and just talk to them, give them those tools, give them those strategies.

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And that's where the Institute started.

3:34

We did our first presentation and then we started moving across Canada.

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Then we went to the States, then we went to South Africa and gradually our body of presentations grew.

3:44

Then we went online actually just before COVID.

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So we were ready for it.

3:48

And then COVID just our online library grew and grew and grew.

3:52

So now we have over 80 different courses on children's mental health and wellness.

3:57

We do lots of live presentations too, lots of corporate trainings, and then lots of other stuff on the side, like writing or social media.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

4:05

Yeah, I love that.

4:06

It's such a wealth of resources, like a library where you can go to.

4:09

And the amazing thing I think about it is that it's all based on research and the latest science on child development.

4:16

Can you tell us a little bit about that?

4:18

Because I know that now with conscious parenting, peaceful parenting, there's this wave of parents that want to know what is the best research-backed method for parenting.

4:29

And all of your guys' work is based and rooted in that science.

TANIA JOHNSON

4:33

Yeah.

4:34

So Tammy and I are both moms, even more importantly than the registered psychologist part of this.

4:40

But realizing that when we went online and I'm sure you've seen it too, you go online and you go into a Facebook moms group and just the advice that was given there, people are so desperate.

4:49

People are trying to do the best for their kids.

4:52

But we would see so many confusing messages around parents or how parents could nurture and truly hold their children.

5:01

And so we said, you know what, there is this body of research.

5:05

The research right now is incredible in terms of conscious parenting, gentle parenting.

5:11

There's this body of research, but it's often that research is inaccessible, overwhelming for parents.

5:17

And so what Tammy and I did was we said, let's start really looking at that research, break it down into digestible pieces for parents, and then actually put concrete action steps with it.

5:28

So us at the Institute, that has always been what we've prided ourselves on, is that everything is research-backed.

5:36

And then we don't just keep it as research because it's lovely to have this lovely little statistic or a little research sample.

5:43

But what does it actually mean if you're parenting?

5:45

So what does the research say?

5:46

And then how do we actually implement this within our homes?

DAJANA YOAKLEY

5:51

Yeah, on a very practical level.

5:54

And we're just finishing up our raising a resilient child summit as we're recording here today.

6:00

And so this podcast will air a week after that.

6:03

But in light of that topic, I know your, your new book, the parenting handbook is the guide to raising a resilient child.

6:10

Can you tell us a little bit more about what the science says about what is resiliency in in childhood and into our adulthood?

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And how can parents raise a resilient child?

TANIA JOHNSON

6:20

Yeah.

6:21

Oh, such a big topic.

6:23

It is.

6:24

You know, right now, what we know is that attachment, first of all, that connection, our early relationships are absolutely pivotal in terms of setting a roadmap for

6:35

for how we come to handle challenges later on in our world.

6:39

So it's not that we won't face challenges.

6:41

It's not that our children won't have mental health issues.

6:44

It's not that they won't have these blips where they really struggle with their self-esteem, whatever it might be.

6:48

Those things are still going to happen.

6:50

But when children have a secure attachment, when they have those secure connections, they're far more likely to hit those road bumps and go up

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How do I get back up?

7:00

And the research actually shows us four different attachment styles and shows us what children do under each attachment style when they do hit life's road bumps.

7:10

So we won't go deeply into it.

7:12

For example, our securely attached children.

7:14

So those are children whose parents have been able to understand where they are developmentally, have worked with their brains, know what to handle when they come up against those discipline issues.

7:24

They're always there.

7:26

But those children, when they hit road bumps in life,

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They'll go down and they might take a little bit of time to get back up, but they get back up because they know that they have that support team.

7:37

Those are our securely attached kids.

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And those are the children who will continue to try and go, okay, where are my new risks?

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Where do I look?

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How do I connect with other people?

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How do I push myself a little bit?

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Because they know that they have backing.

7:52

Those are securely attached kids.

7:54

Mm-hmm.

7:55

Our other attachment styles, for example, our anxiously attached kids or our insecurely attached children, for those kiddos, the parenting style has been quite inconsistent for them.

8:05

So sometimes mom or dad puts in limits, sometimes they don't.

8:09

Sometimes they're super available, sometimes they're not.

8:12

So it's this in, out, in, out, in, out.

8:14

And with our securely attached parents, it's not that they're present 100% of the time, but the general pattern is that they're connected and they're present with their kiddos.

8:24

without insecurely or anxiously attached kiddos, the caregiving style is all over the place.

8:29

And for these children, they're so concerned about their relationships.

8:33

Are you with me?

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Are you not with me?

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That when they hit life's road bumps,

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They won't get back up until they know that there's somebody there to cling to.

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And they're very focused on what happened for the other person in this road bump and not what happened for me when I hit this road bump.

8:50

Is mom okay?

8:50

Is dad okay?

8:51

Are they mad at me?

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Do my friends feel like me?

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Lots of energy going out to their relationships.

8:57

So that's our second one, our avoidantly attached kiddos.

9:01

For these children, when they hit life's road bumps, for these kids, the caregiving style, they need to be met, but the parents aren't emotionally connected to the child.

9:11

There's not the same emotional achievement.

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So for these kiddos, when they hit their road bumps, they go down and they're very, very interesting.

9:22

Some of them won't get back up, but for other avoidantly attached children, they'll get back up and they'll look like they're resilient.

9:31

But what's actually happened is that they cannot trust the adults in their world to help them.

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So they say, I'll get back up by myself.

9:38

And they stuff down all of their feelings.

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And much later on in life, that's when we start to see mental health issues arise.

9:45

So, and then our last attachment style is our disorganized attachment style.

9:49

These are kiddos who have been through trauma, who have never had a safe adult in their world.

9:55

And with these kids, when they hit life's road bumps, they put on all sorts of defense mechanisms.

10:01

So some of them might get back up, but again, they're stuffing down feelings.

10:05

Others might kick and scream.

10:07

Others might never get back up.

10:08

Basically, they're trying to keep themselves safe in a world that hasn't kept them safe.

10:13

So we look foundationally, resilience initially is sparked, particularly in those early years by the caregiving style, by the level of connection and safety and security that a child experiences.

10:31

So to me, it's almost like the fertile soil for what's going to happen later on in a child's world.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

10:39

Oh, so powerful.

10:40

There's so many questions popping into my head based on what you're saying.

10:45

I'd love to get into the practical things that parents can do to create secure attachment.

10:49

But before we get into that, I wanted to just clarify, you know, we know that anxiety is like the number one mental health disorder, right?

10:55

Worldwide, I think, or in the United States.

10:59

And does that come, that anxiety that we say, like somebody has anxiety, does that come from that insecure mindset?

11:06

anxious state or avoidant, or that's a separate.

11:09

So it's not necessarily that your parenting style is giving your child this general anxiety, right?

TANIA JOHNSON

11:15

And it's a great question.

11:16

It's actually one that we get often.

11:18

So, and you know, one of the issues is because that insecure style is sometimes called an anxious attachment style, which I think creates so much confusion for people.

11:27

Like if people's kids are clingy, they'll go, oh no, do I have an insecure attachment style with my kid?

11:33

Not necessarily.

11:34

So clinginess is,

11:35

does is part of an insecure attachment style um but it can come from different places so that can be due to the attachment style sometimes clingy children who are anxious children but who have a secure attachment so just like we can have depression we can have emotion regulation issues we can have anxiety all of those things still happen within a secure attachment style

11:59

But when those things happen, depression, anxiety, emotion, dysregulation, whatever it is, when those things happen, the parenting style doesn't change.

12:09

We stay warm.

12:11

We say, what does this child need right now?

12:13

What do I maybe need to address within myself to be able to help them more?

12:18

We stay warm and consistent.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

12:22

Yeah.

12:22

The foundation, like you said, the parent doesn't change in what they're giving the child.

12:26

The child may change in terms of what they're experiencing.

12:29

They may be going through a difficult time.

12:31

Even though the parent is giving a secure, responsive parenting, there's something else, some other factors influencing the child's nervous system.

12:41

And I know that anxiety is directly linked to nervous system safety.

12:47

Anything else you would say about that?

12:49

I guess that really leads into...

12:51

maybe more practical things that parents can do, but just in the context of, you know, a child being anxious, you know, or even adults being anxious is kind of the number one mental health disorder.

13:03

Can you just share a little bit about how we can support our kids with anxiety and what role like nervous system safety polyvagal theory plays in that resiliency of the nervous system?

TANIA JOHNSON

13:17

Yeah, it's so interesting.

13:18

At the Institute, we're really starting to look at how often we help children when they're anxious in the moment.

13:26

So we go, okay, what do I need to do?

13:28

My kid's super anxious at bedtime or they're super, super anxious right before we go to school.

13:33

What do I need to do?

13:34

What's the strategy?

13:36

But we deeply, deeply believe that all of that falls apart when we don't start looking at the wider system.

13:41

When we talk about safe bodies, calm and nervous systems.

13:47

Our children, for many of them, they're waking up in the morning, they go straight into television or onto their phones if they're a little bit older, sometimes even younger now, but they go straight into technology.

13:58

Then they maybe are fighting with mom or dad, then they go to school, then it goes to daycare, then to activities, then they come home and go on technology, and then they fall asleep.

14:07

And we're looking at this generation of children and going, oh, anxiety is on the rise, anxiety is on the rise.

14:12

And of course it's on the rise.

14:14

Like when do these little systems that are growing and developing these beautiful brains, like right now in childhood, this is when their brains are developing.

14:22

There's so many beautiful things happening, but there's no space for our children to rest and to just be right.

14:30

So I'm also anxious.

14:32

So at the Institute, a big part of our work, and it's actually based on one of our heroes at the Institute, Kim Payne, who is the founder of Parenting.

14:42

Part of our work is saying to parents, we realize that many of us are working.

14:48

Parents are working.

14:48

Kids have to go to daycare.

14:50

Kid loves their hockey.

14:52

But we need to start to, A, first of all, reflect on how our lives are impacting our children.

14:57

And it's not just about that moment.

14:59

It's being expressed in the moment, but it's not about that moment.

15:02

Right, right, right.

15:04

Or we have to look, take a bigger viewpoint, which is actually often harder.

15:09

You know, when my little girls struggle, it's much harder to look at myself and say, Tanya, what's going on with you than to look at them and go like, oh.

15:18

So it's much harder to reflect as parents, but reflect what's happening in our homes, first of all.

15:24

um before we even go to what's actually happening in that moment and then second of all to go okay maybe our day today has to happen we have to go to work they have to go to daycare but where do we start to create gaps is it saying no to an extra play date is it saying sunday afternoons just belong to the family is it turning the radio off in the car and

15:47

Getting the kids to put their phones down if they're on their phones in the back and saying, this is our space for quiet.

15:52

So part of setting those systems is starting really to create a resting place for our bodies throughout the day.

16:01

Eventually they have to explode.

16:03

And so now I have, let's say I'm going, going, going, going, going.

16:06

I'm not getting great sleep.

16:07

We know we have to sleep well to do well.

16:10

So I'm not getting great sleep.

16:11

And then suddenly there's this added pressure of now I've got to go to school.

16:14

And my friend was being mean to me yesterday.

16:17

Of course, our little bodies are going to explode, whether that's into a fight or flight mechanism.

16:22

The moment that pressure builds, that's when it all comes out and says, it's too much.

16:26

There's just too much for our children.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

16:49

a summit this past week or like you just picked up a book that talks a little bit about co-regulation or something so it's so hard in parenting because like you're saying there's all these stressors on the child's nervous system but so much of the time parents don't we're kind of on autopilot just kind of in the habit of doing things not you know and it's like yes if there's a big fire like the meltdown before school because they don't want to go to school then it's like

17:13

Oh my gosh, what am I going to do?

17:14

But outside of that, it's like, okay, just the routine.

17:17

It's almost like it puts the parent's nervous system in a rest state because they're just like, okay, I'm an autopilot.

17:22

But the autopilot routine actually ramps up the child's nervous system without us consciously realizing it.

17:28

And then the explosions happen and the meltdowns and the anxious meltdowns.

17:32

And we start to wonder where is this coming from?

17:34

But yeah.

17:35

it's actually like almost the silence of like the the routine and the habits that we haven't even become conscious of so much in our parenting just because we don't know so much of what's actually happening to our child right and you know it can be so helpful to you

TANIA JOHNSON

17:52

talk to somebody else to go, you know, whether you have a partner or a friend to say, what do you think might be going on here?

17:57

What are you seeing in me right now?

17:59

Because often we don't see it, like you said, because we just get into this rhythm.

18:02

So it can be so have a reflection partner to say what might actually be happening here that my child is actually expressing.

18:12

but you know so I think what our children need is one a slow world and then two within their world they need deeply connected adults who see them for who they are who can put in limits you know when when we put in limits for our children our anxious children all of our children it says I see you I care enough to put those limits in place in a warm kind way and I think you know very often with gentle parenting there's this

18:40

misconception that there's no there's absolutely limits but we hold our children with warmth and with connection so that they go okay now i can engage in the important work of childhood because somebody is looking after me i don't need to look after myself mom has it dad has a grandma has it whoever my caregiver is at this time

19:00

They need the scene, they need limits, and then they need all of the things that fill up their back to help with that anxiety.

19:08

So they need play, they need nature, they need less technology, they need more purpose and hope in their world.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

19:16

Hmm.

19:18

Yeah, I love that.

19:19

And yeah, it's almost like we have to rethink our family life as parents, we have to rethink like, what actually are we doing in our daily routine?

19:27

And how can we restructure this, it really takes almost like some strategic planning, like you're, like you're looking at your organization's like goals for the year, like, how do you want to grow this year?

19:37

Like, how do you want your family to thrive this year?

19:40

And

19:41

what are you going to do differently as a parent?

19:44

Because of, again, that autopilot and, you know, a generation of parents now that have grown up with some technology in their childhoods, you know, and

19:54

this is kind of their routine themselves and they're kind of letting their, their kids are kind of just following their routines that they've had for a while.

20:04

So resilient parent, resilient child, anxious parent, anxious child, right?

TANIA JOHNSON

20:09

Absolutely.

20:09

Absolutely.

20:11

You know, we say put the oxygen mask on yourself first and then your child, right?

20:15

it's really hard to do all of those things, to be present, to be connected, to reflect when we're running on empty ourselves.

20:23

And even at the agency, I always say to my parents, when I see people in private practice, I say to them, if you only have a limited amount of funding for therapy, spend it on yourself first and then spend it on your child.

20:37

And again, my specialization is in play therapy, but I think

DAJANA YOAKLEY

20:41

very hard for a child to do well if they're going home and everybody's running on empty it doesn't matter how much play you do it's not going to change anything if home is chaotic so what are some things that yeah outside of therapy what are some things that parents can do to kind of implement um some resilience habits in them in their own lives in their own routines that backed by evidence and research yeah so

TANIA JOHNSON

21:09

It's actually quite similar to what we do with our children.

21:12

So when our children are struggling, when they're running on empty, when they have big emotional explosions or they turn inward because they're so anxious, we always talk to parents about really working with our kids from the bottom up.

21:25

And really that's the same way that information flows.

21:28

It flows from our body to the base of our brain, to the middle of our brain, to our prefrontal cortex.

21:33

So I want you almost to imagine, for example, I'm going to give you an example and tell you how we use it with our parents.

21:38

When information comes in, often we pick it up in our environment, it travels up our spinal cord, just to the nape of our neck, to the back of our brain here, where we have our brainstem, which is where our autonomic functions come from, so our ability to salivate, perspire.

21:54

It's also where our fight, flight, freeze response comes from.

21:58

So it says, is everything okay here or not?

22:00

We often call it our body brain because it's connected to our body.

22:03

The next, then the information keeps flowing up to the middle of our brain, to our feelings part of the brain.

22:08

This is where raw emotion and feelings of safety come.

22:11

live.

22:12

And then the very top of the brain is our thinking brain.

22:16

And this is where we get to plan, prioritize, we get to think of different perspectives, problem solve.

22:23

So we have our body brain, feeling brain, thinking brain.

22:27

The body brain always asks, am I safe?

22:30

The feeling brain always asks, am I loved?

22:33

And the thinking brain always asks, am I competent?

22:37

And so when our children are upset, we always work with the body brain first.

22:41

We always try and just calm their bodies first without too many words.

22:46

Then we try and work with those feelings.

22:48

Some kids, we can name feelings.

22:49

Other kids, they just want us to breathe with them.

22:53

And then the thinking brain, once they calm, that's when we go,

22:55

what do we want to do about this?

22:57

How do we work on this together?

22:59

So with our Delta working on resiliency, we do exactly the same thing.

23:03

We work with the body brain first.

23:05

So we want to make sure that we are getting enough sleep, that we're moving our body enough, that we're outside, that we know how to take those deep breaths when we're struggling.

23:16

that we're not overwhelmed when we're overwhelmed it's kind of it's picked up here in the body brain so we work on the body brain first so all of those fundamental things need to come first and i always say to parents start slow just start slow say to yourself i'm going to read for 20 minutes before bed instead of looking at my phone that's a really work buddy brain

23:38

And then our feelings brain, this is our attachments, our connections.

23:44

So here I say to them, who is your village?

23:47

Who do you need to reach out to?

23:48

Is it a friend to go for a walk with?

23:50

Is it reaching out to a therapist?

23:53

Is it reconnecting with your mom?

23:54

Is it putting in boundaries with your own mom?

23:57

What do we need to do in terms of relationships with that feeling part of the brain?

24:01

So that's the next part that we work on.

24:03

And then I always work on the thinking brain, the am I competent?

24:07

And here I always say to my parents that our children, this is where play, often more sophisticated play comes from too.

24:16

So this is about us figuring out what brings me joy.

24:20

So is it doing yoga?

24:23

Is it joining a running club?

24:25

Is it scrapbooking?

24:27

Is it joining some sort of cultural club?

24:29

What brings me joy?

24:30

And then do it.

24:31

Because if we don't do it, our kids will never look after themselves either.

24:35

So when we're looking after our whole brain, our body brain, feeling brain, and thinking brain, we're far more likely to be able to be present and connected to our children.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

24:47

So good.

24:47

So good.

24:48

I almost want to draw the visual of it.

24:50

Cause I love how you're saying like, it's this directional flow and it's really the questions.

24:55

I love that because it really focuses in on like, yeah.

24:59

What is the true like question that's being asked here?

25:01

Cause sometimes our own thoughts can distract us from like those focal points, like you're saying, and we can get off into our own stories versus like,

TANIA JOHNSON

25:11

And what I love about your question there is like, how do we foster resiliency in parents?

25:16

I think so often that gets caught up in kind of feelings around self-care, which I think there's so much guilt around self-care for parents.

25:26

It's like,

25:27

In order for me to do self-care, I had to go to an hour and a half of hot yoga or massage, or I need a village to be able to look after my kids.

25:35

There's so many feelings around all of that for so many parents.

25:39

But what I love about the way you phrase that question is this isn't about going out, spending money, having to do more, not doing enough.

25:46

This is about small incremental changes.

25:49

And it truly is about looking after the brain because when our brains are healthy, we're more likely to be healthy parents for our children.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

25:55

Hmm.

25:56

I love it.

25:57

And so for any parents listening that want to do this work, but they have a part of them that's coming up and saying, where am I going to find the time to do this work, this body feelings and competency brain?

26:11

When am I going to have time to answer these questions as they're coming up?

26:14

Like, what would you say to parents that have this kind of resistance or there's a block coming up about time, like the to-do list and the kids are pulling at me and it's just the lack of support already that they feel like getting a snorkel because they're drowning.

26:30

How can they start to make these changes knowing that at the end of this process, like not at the end, but as they get going, they actually will have more time.

26:36

They'll create more time.

26:37

How do you start?

26:38

Yeah.

TANIA JOHNSON

26:39

So such a beautiful question.

26:41

I would literally don't try it all at once.

26:44

So don't go like, okay, I've got to do some body stuff, some feeling stuff and some competency stuff.

26:48

Don't go there.

26:49

Start with the body stuff.

26:50

And I always call it micro shifts.

26:52

Micro shifts lead to massive tidal waves in terms of wellness.

26:57

So is it, I am just going to take my phone and put it on the power bank in the kitchen instead of bringing it up to bed at night.

27:04

And I'm going to put an alarm clock next to my bed.

27:07

Is that the first change that I'm going to make?

27:08

And then just stick with that and see what happens from there.

27:10

Whether it means you go to bed quicker and you sleep more, or whether it means you actually read something, choose something.

27:16

Go, okay, Tanya today is talking about, she's talking about sleep.

27:19

She's talking about movement.

27:20

She's talking about overwhelm.

27:21

She's talking about nutrition too.

27:24

In those areas, where can I see just one small shift?

27:28

choose something that's within reach and do it and then implement that stick with that for a few weeks and when you go actually this is feeling really good then have a look and see if there's something else you want to shift and when you're ready you can say okay what about those relationships where do i maybe connect more would i maybe need to put in boundaries but start with the body brain then go on to those connections and feelings

27:51

And then when you're ready, we can go on to what is my identity?

27:54

What do my children see?

27:55

Where do I find joy?

27:57

But build it slowly and small little changes, just five minute increments a day.

28:03

You know, I think all of us for our children, when we think about our kids, what we want is children who are imbued with a sense of well-being and joy.

28:15

What's so interesting is that we don't recognize that our kids won't do it if they don't see it lived in their homes.

28:21

So if they never see a parent who says, mom's just got to go take a hot bath right now, or dad's sitting and I'm just going to have coffee.

28:31

I'll be with you in a minute.

28:33

That's where my joy is coming from right now.

28:35

um or for a walk together or i'm going out tonight because this is what's really good for my soul i'm going out for dinner with friends if they never see some of those lived things within their household how do they learn long-term wellness where does it come from and what do you think prevents parents from putting themselves first even for the benefit of their children it's

29:02

Yeah, I think it's lots of societal messages out there.

29:06

I think that there's tons out there.

29:10

I do think it is somewhat cultural.

29:11

It says children first, children first, children first, where we know when we look after our wellness, we're looking after our children's wellness.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

29:20

29:21

So it's not me or the child has to be always at the top of the list because like a narcissistic parent, that cultural myth of like, well, if it's just always about the parent, are you a narcissist?

29:32

It's always about the child.

29:33

You're like a martyr.

29:35

Maybe it's like a balance of like whose needs, what are the needs right now?

29:39

Who has the most urgent needs right now?

29:42

And it's both of us.

29:43

It's we.

29:44

It's like that we, Dan Siegel.

29:47

We're both here.

29:47

We're both important.

29:49

Of course, you're going to meet your child's needs.

29:51

But if they don't have any urgent needs right now and you do, you meet your own needs.

TANIA JOHNSON

29:56

beautiful I love that you know in South Africa and in South Africa we have a phrase that's called Ubuntu and Ubuntu is really about the we so it's oh I love it yeah we sit together and what do we need right now and of course we know that kids there's going to be extracurricular activities there's going to be fights there's going to be we need to read to them we've got to do homework there's always so much coming up with our children but I think within the context and within the culture of the family

30:25

We need to be able to see that they have needs.

30:27

Mom has needs.

30:28

Dad has needs.

30:30

And how do we balance that?

DAJANA YOAKLEY

30:33

Yeah.

30:33

Looking at the community as a whole and teaching children, the value of the team and the family as a group so that they understand they're not the only person that's important that everybody's needs will be met, including theirs.

30:48

And they can learn, start learning this from a young age.

30:51

Yeah.

30:54

I love that.

30:54

Okay.

30:57

Yeah, I was going to ask, is there anything else that you wanted to highlight specifically from the book?

31:04

Yeah, as we kind of wrap up, I'd love for you to highlight anything else that we kind of didn't touch on that you really want to send a message to parents about.

TANIA JOHNSON

31:14

Yeah, so this is in the book, but I know because I didn't go there and people who are listening to this podcast will probably say, but what do I do in the moment when my child is super anxious?

31:23

So can I talk to that quickly?

31:25

So people I haven't heard yet.

31:27

And we've already spoke about how the brain works and how we want to work with their body first.

31:32

But if you have a little one who is going to school and they're super, super anxious,

31:38

We just want to get down on their level, make sure that we're close and they feel safe.

31:43

Slow down your own breathing.

31:46

Get attuned to them.

31:48

And then if you can, if it works for them, you can name those feelings for them and say, scary today, or you're feeling really scared, or mommy hears you.

31:57

It's hard for you to go to school today.

32:00

So be with them in that moment.

32:02

And then if their body starts to settle, we can, you know, we could do a flow activity with them if we have time with them.

32:09

So we could do a little puzzle, do a Lego with them and then say, okay, we're going to go to school now.

32:14

What can I do to help you?

32:15

So we can see if we can problem solve.

32:16

Sometimes there might be moments where we can't do that in that moment.

32:19

We still, as much as possible, want to get down to that level.

32:23

Slow down our breathing.

32:24

So hopefully their breathing slows.

32:25

Let them know that you see them.

32:27

And then if we need to say, okay, and now we're going to go to school.

32:30

I've had it with my little one where sometimes I need to almost pick her up and say, okay, we're going to go to school, put her in the car, even if she's anxious.

32:37

And then on the way to school, I'm still saying, mom's here.

32:40

I've got you.

32:41

Mom's here.

32:41

Mom can hear this.

32:42

It's hard for you.

32:43

But that's slowing down, talking less and really co-regulating with our bodies become so important with our little ones.

32:50

And then outside of that time, that's when we

32:52

can teach so with my little one who's anxious I've told her that the amygdala is like a smoke detector and sometimes that smoke detector goes off when it's a real fire and sometimes it's just burnt toast so for example last night she was super anxious about going to bed and I said to her okay so I sat with her for a little while and then I just said to her let's think about this is it a fire or is it burnt toast and she said it's burnt toast mom and I said okay

33:19

We can teach concepts outside, but more than anything, what I want parents to hold on to is when their children are anxious is your body and how you use your body with your child in those moments is more important than anything that you're going to say to them.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

33:34

I love it.

33:35

It's such a misconception.

33:36

I think parents get into fight or flight themselves.

33:38

They get anxious because their child's anxious and then they feel activated to move and mobilize and do something.

33:44

But actually what the child needs, the solution to the problem is using your body as an instrument of calm and soothing.

33:53

And you can't fake it, right?

33:54

You can't fake not being anxious that they're anxious.

33:57

You have to literally put yourself in this state of like...

34:00

parasympathetic nervous system so that the mirror neurons can pick up because your body literally is the medicine that they need right yes yeah i love it so powerful yeah and like you said like there's so many like misconceptions about like saying things or like doing something but um the embodiment is really like 80 of it and i know for some kids it works to name their feelings but like with my little one she'll she she'll say to me like

TANIA JOHNSON

34:30

she's eight and she'll say, don't use validation on me.

34:39

She just needs me to breathe with her and be with her in that.

34:43

Your child needs in that moment.

34:45

And I would say less is always more in those moments with our kids.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

34:50

Yeah.

34:50

I love that.

34:51

Yeah.

34:51

Definitely those highly sensitive, deeply feeling kids.

34:55

They don't want so much descriptions and validation of their emotions and you know, your kid, right?

35:01

Like if, if they're, if they're born like that, they're like that for life.

TANIA JOHNSON

35:04

Yeah.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

35:06

It's not changing.

35:06

Yeah.

35:07

Awesome.

35:08

Thank you so much for taking the time.

35:09

Would you share with a little bit about your freebie for our audience today or what your, where you want the, the audience to go to check out more resources about your handbook?

TANIA JOHNSON

35:20

Yeah, so if you go to myparentinghandbook.com, there's a lot of information there on the book.

35:26

And if you purchase a book, you actually get access to a six and a half hour course on compassionate discipline.

35:32

It's one of our most popular courses and it's fabulous.

35:35

It really covers a lot of what we were speaking about today in more detail.

35:38

So yeah, if they head over to myparentinghandbook.com, they'll see it there.

35:42

Awesome.

DAJANA YOAKLEY

35:42

I know that's going to be super valuable for people.

35:44

What a great giveaway if you get the handbook, which is in and of itself is such an amazing investment in your family.

35:51

So thank you so much for taking the time today, Tanya.

35:53

I really enjoyed speaking with you today.

35:55

Thank you so much.

35:57

Thanks.

35:59

If you enjoyed this podcast and would like additional resources to support you in your parenting journey, my free gift to you is access to my parenting membership with a free 30 day trial where you'll find bite-sized video and audio strategies, scripts, masterclasses, a private community with parents just like you and weekly group coaching calls directly with me and so much more.

36:20

Go to delightedparenting.com backslash membership to learn more.

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